. >> well, and that should tell us how history will look upon nelson mandela. >> quite an amazing man. >> let's turn to the nsa, pretty controversial letter today from the bosses of apple, google, yahoo! facebook, linked in and twitter. to president obama, saying the key line, the balance of many countries has ticked too far away from the state and the individual, undermines the freedoms we all cherish, time for a change. now, one of the founders of twitter, jack dorsey, and what do you make about the standoff between the nsa who wants to have the right to poke in everybody's business because they believe it will stop trim. and obviously, the portals, saying whoa, steady. >> first of all, there are two parts of this. one, what the national security agency does in the united states with u.s. citizens. now, on the -- at least circumstantial evidence, at least whether or not they're behaving legally in regard to our constitution. the other part, what they do overseas in china and iran and other places. the point is, two different parts of it. because there is no international law that de